cynefin Archives - Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast

BONUS: Why Your Agile Transformation Keeps Snapping Back — And What Systems Thinking Says About It, With Natalia Curusi

Natalia Curusi co-authored “From Resistance to Resilience: Practical Agile Lessons for Transformation”, a book that doesn’t tell you what agile should look like — it tells you what actually happens when you try to transform an organization. Friday-night deployments, zombie teams going through the motions, transformations that met a wall of silence.

In this episode, we unpack the real lessons from the front lines: how personal values drive the shift to agile, why some teams have all the ceremonies but none of the substance, and what systems thinking reveals about why transformations fail — or snap back.

When Your Values Don’t Match Your Ways of Working

“I felt like there is a mismatch in my values, my moral values and principles, and customer-centric orientation. So when I found out about Agile around 2010, I understood — okay, this is the answer. Now I have the answer how I can map my moral values and principles with software delivery.” Continue reading BONUS: Why Your Agile Transformation Keeps Snapping Back — And What Systems Thinking Says About It, With Natalia Curusi

BONUS: Why Every Organization Reinvents Silos—And What to Do About It, With Roland Flemm

Today we speak with Roland Flemm, co-creator of Org Topologies and co-author of 10X Org — Powered by Org Topologies. Roland has spent decades in the trenches—first as a developer, then in infrastructure, and finally as a Scrum Master, trainer, and organizational design consultant. In this episode, he explains why even teenagers with zero corporate experience instinctively create departmental silos, why making every team faster doesn’t make the whole organization faster, and how leaders can use the Org Topologies map to see their organization as it actually is—not as the org chart says it should be.

From Developer to Org Designer: Four Decades of Hitting the Same Wall

“I felt many, many times the limitations of organizational structures stopping me from using my common sense to make people work together in a proper way.”

Roland’s career spans over 40 years, starting as a developer in 1984. After a decade writing code and another decade in infrastructure, he moved into Scrum and agile coaching. But even as a highly effective Scrum Master, he kept hitting the same ceiling: local team improvements couldn’t break through organizational boundaries. You could have wins with your team, but the moment you needed multiple teams to work together, someone higher up would shut it down. That frustration led him to Large-Scale Scrum (LeSS) by Bas Vodde and Craig Larman, which offered a more educated approach to multi-team collaboration—and eventually to co-creating Org Topologies as a way to help leaders see and change the structures that block real collaboration.

Bas has been on the podcast to share his view on scaling Scrum with LeSS, listen to his episode here.

The Hydrogen Car That Built Its Own Silos

“If you don’t think about your org design—the way that you want to collaborate—then something like this happens.” Continue reading BONUS: Why Every Organization Reinvents Silos—And What to Do About It, With Roland Flemm

BONUS: Why Copying Frameworks Fails—Building Great Product Organizations From the Inside Out, With Marcus Hammarberg and Tore Fjaertoft

Imagine a company that spends a year building an iPad app—and on launch day the product owner says: “Now it’ll be interesting to see if anyone uses it.” In this episode, Marcus Hammarberg and Tore Fjaertoft share why organizations keep installing frameworks like software, why it still doesn’t work, and what they’ve learned from places like Spotify about treating your way of working as a product in itself.

When Copying Without Adopting Becomes the Norm

“It becomes more about following whatever this framework tells you to do, rather than to understand what the problem you’re trying to solve is all about.”

Marcus and Tore met at a consultancy in Malmö and within 15 minutes realized they shared the same frustrations—despite coming from opposite directions. Marcus comes from the ground up as a software developer and coach, while Tore works top-down with leadership teams on product organization design. Both had worked at Spotify and both had seen organizations copy famous frameworks and models without adopting the underlying mindset. The telltale sign, as Tore describes it, is when people focus on compliance rather than being pragmatic—following the manual without questioning whether the way they’re working is actually serving the organization. As Marcus frames it through Cynefin, product development lives in a domain where best practices don’t even exist—only emergent practices that you discover by trying things out.

Treat Your Process Like a Product

“The easiest way for us to explain things has been: take the mindset you use for your product, and then use that same mindset when you’re approaching how you set things up and how you work internally.” Continue reading BONUS: Why Copying Frameworks Fails—Building Great Product Organizations From the Inside Out, With Marcus Hammarberg and Tore Fjaertoft

Pascal Papathemelis: From Waterfall to Agile—A Multi-Level Change Strategy

Pascal describes a successful agile transformation where he collaborated with a fellow coach in the IT department of a large organization with a waterfall history and heavy documentation-driven processes. The two coaches worked together effectively, sharing information and scouting for opportunities to take action. They began with an assessment and discussions across IT, business, and management levels to understand the current state. Using the Cynefin framework to understand complexity, they conducted a two-day workshop to introduce Agile vocabulary, covering concepts like Push/Pull and process waste.

The coaches operated at multiple levels simultaneously – working strategically with leadership who typically pushed excessive work to the organization, while also helping teams visualize their processes and clarify priorities. At the team level, they acted as Scrum Masters to demonstrate the role while mentoring the actual Scrum Master through one-on-one sessions. They also supported the Product Owner in understanding their role and used story maps to help visualize and organize work effectively.

Self-reflection Question: How might collaborating with another coach or change agent amplify your effectiveness in leading organizational transformation?

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Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people.

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About Pascal Papathemelis

Pascal is an Agile & Professional Coach that wants to make a positive impact to the people working with. Coaching in Finnish, German and English language. Focus areas are human factors, outcomes, effectiveness, flow, decision making, clarity and constant improvement.

You can link with Pascal Papathemelis on LinkedIn.

BONUS: Solution-Focused Coaching: The Game-Changing Method Every Scrum Master Needs With Ralph Miarka and Veronika Jugwirth

In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into solution-focused coaching with Ralph and Veronika, co-authors of “Solution Focused Coaching For Agile Teams.” This conversation explores how to shift from problem-solving to solution-building, helping Agile teams thrive through a forward-looking approach that empowers teams to find their own path to success.

Understanding Solution-Focused Coaching

“Solution focus, focuses on the goal itself. We are not talking about ‘how’, but first start with ‘what we want to achieve’.”

Solution-focused coaching represents a fundamental shift from traditional problem-solving approaches. Rather than diving into root cause analysis and retrospectives focused on what went wrong, this methodology centers on the future and desired outcomes. It operates as a communication system that recognizes the complexity of modern work environments where simple cause-effect relationships don’t always apply. In engineering, root causes make sense when dealing with predictable systems, but in complex organizational dynamics, solution-focused coaching acknowledges that we often can’t identify clear root causes and instead focuses on creating a “preferred future.”

In this segment we refer to Solution-focused brief therapy and the Cynefin model.

The Power of Not-Knowing

“Instead of suggesting solutions, we should start by asking questions. The “Not-knowing position” is about accepting this.”

The “not-knowing position” challenges coaches and leaders to resist the urge to immediately diagnose problems and offer solutions. When someone shares their story, they’re not sharing the version we think we know. This approach transforms coaching conversations by starting with questions like “What difference would it make for you to solve this problem?” This shift toward asking questions about a positive future can even help identify advocates among those who initially resist change, creating unexpected allies in transformation efforts.

Everyone as an Expert

“When we help teams change by themselves, they change much faster.” Continue reading BONUS: Solution-Focused Coaching: The Game-Changing Method Every Scrum Master Needs With Ralph Miarka and Veronika Jugwirth