In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into the world of OKRs with Jeff Gothelf, co-author of the newly released book, Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs. Jeff is a product management expert, author, and keynote speaker, renowned for his contributions to building better products and fostering innovation within organizations. In this episode, Jeff discusses the evolution of OKRs, their impact on teams and organizations, and how to adopt this framework effectively.
The Motivation Behind the Book
“We needed to change how companies approach goal-setting to focus on outcomes rather than outputs.”
Jeff shares the journey that led him and his co-author Josh Seiden to write this book. They began with Lean UX, a practical guide for designers that expanded into other company areas (see this podcast episode with Josh Seiden about that book). However, as they worked more with clients, they noticed a disconnect between the goals set by leadership and the methods used by teams to achieve those goals. This realization inspired them to tackle the challenges companies face with goal-setting, particularly with OKRs, which they observe, are widely used but often misapplied.
The Shift from Output to Outcome
“In a post-OKR world, success is measured by what customers do differently when we solve the problem the right way.”
Jeff explains the fundamental difference between traditional goal-setting methods and OKRs. Traditional methods focus on output—what gets produced. In contrast, OKRs emphasize outcomes, or how customer behavior changes as a result of solving a problem correctly. Jeff highlights the importance of this shift in mindset, especially in software-driven organizations where success isn’t just about delivering a product but about making a meaningful impact on users.
Overcoming the “Do the Thing” Mentality
“Start by asking your boss, ‘What do you expect our users to do differently?'”
One of the challenges in implementing OKRs is moving teams away from a mentality focused on simply completing tasks. Jeff suggests starting conversations with leadership by discussing the impact and benefits of feature requests, shifting the focus from just doing the thing to achieving a specific outcome. He also advises starting with a pilot team to ease into this new way of working, emphasizing the need for customer-centric, outcome-based OKRs.
Embracing Experiments Without Fear
“We saved the organization money by invalidating assumptions—this is a success, not a failure.”
Jeff addresses the common fear teams have about experimenting and potentially failing. He shares examples from his work with teams who, after finding their hypotheses invalid, were initially afraid to communicate this to leadership. However, by reframing these experiments as cost-saving successes, Jeff shows how organizations can shift their perspective and embrace experimentation as a critical part of innovation.
Structuring OKRs for Customer-Centricity
“We reverse-engineer the problem and identify the human who cares about having that problem solved.”
Jeff delves into the importance of structuring OKRs around customer needs. He recommends starting by defining the problem teams are trying to solve and understanding the people who are affected by that problem. Encouraging teams to dig deeper into the actual human experiences they aim to improve ensures that the OKRs are not only business-focused but also enhance customer experiences and relationships.
Redefining Roadmaps with OKRs
“OKR-based roadmaps replace feature lists with behavior change hypotheses.”
For OKRs to work effectively, Jeff explains that organizations must also rethink their roadmaps. Traditional roadmaps often list features to be built, but with OKRs, the focus shifts to committing to specific outcomes and behavior changes rather than delivering features. This change requires a new approach to planning and prioritization, one that aligns with the goals set by OKRs.
Starting the OKR Adoption Process
“Adopt a cycle of OKRs, experiments, and goal-based roadmaps to ease the transition.”
Jeff provides practical advice for organizations looking to start using OKRs. He outlines a cycle that includes setting OKRs, conducting experiments, and adjusting roadmaps based on the learnings from those experiments. He also emphasizes the importance of clear communication from teams, including sharing what they’ve learned and how they’ve adjusted their course based on that knowledge. Jeff’s approach is tested and proven, with much of the content first shared on his blog.
The OKR Book
To dive deeper into customer-centric OKRs, you can order Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs on Amazon. For additional resources and insights, visit OKR-BOOK.com and JeffGothelf.com.
About Jeff Gothelf
Jeff Gothelf is a product management expert, author, and keynote speaker known for his impactful work in building better products and fostering innovation cultures. He is the co-author of Lean UX and Sense & Respond, and advises executives and organizations on business agility, digital transformation, and human-centered design. Jeff’s latest project is co-authoring Who Does What By How Much? A Practical Guide to Customer-Centric OKRs.
You can link with Jeff Gothelf on LinkedIn and connect with Jeff Gothelf on Twitter.
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